Jeni Britton Bauer: Succeeding Against the Odds

Michael Redd:
I'm thrilled to have you on and in doing this podcast, thinking about guests and people that I would love to talk to and hear their stories, you were the one of the first names that popped up. And I know that me and you had saw each other at the YWCA event with my wife and you being keynote speakers and it was a really incredible night of empowerment. And I really enjoyed hearing your story there and I figured would love to hear your story now. And I think a lot of people who haven't heard your story would love to hear it as well.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I just, I agree. I thought that it was an incredible night. I loved meeting you. It sort of stopped me in my tracks. When you get out in the world and you and I probably see it in a way that maybe some others don't. When you get out in the world, you just realize that there are so many incredible people and if you're open to that, it really can stop you in your tracks and just make you, I don't know, think and pay attention for a little bit. I think that's such an important thing and I'm really grateful that I get to be out and meeting incredible people and inspired by people like you and your wife and the stories that you guys were telling out there.

Michael Redd:
No, it's the same here and I was inspired by your swag as well. If you don't know, Jeni is really big on her fashion and her swag and it's really cool. It's really cool to see. But yeah-

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I've always been so weird. I've always been kind of just a weirdo a little bit and I think that's ... I'm in my forties now, I'm fine with that. I always have been really, but sometimes I look back at pictures from other eras. I study history a lot and sometimes I literally wear clothes as costumes to help me feel that I'm emotionally time traveling. And sometimes I look back at pictures and I'm like, "Well, that was the Marie Antoinette phase where I was really learning everything about her and trying to figure out what it felt like to have really tall hair or whatever it was." Sometimes I embarrass myself with my clothing selection, but it really is always very personal to me and it almost is like a costume. I always know the personality that I'm putting on every day. It's always mine, but it's inspired by so many different things.

Michael Redd:
Yeah. I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. And that night when I saw you and I was like, "Wow, I love it. I love the look. I love the story and the art behind the outfit." But what an incredible resume and story you've had over the last 25 years of being in business and in the industry of creating ice cream. And the awards are as long as they can be of what you received and what you've been able to accomplish and achieve, which is really remarkable. I was reading on some of the accomplishments from Fast Company magazine, deeming you as one of the most creative companies in the world, to receive in the James Beard Award, which is like the Oscars for food. And some of the other accomplishments that you've been able to accomplish through business and just your pure love for ice cream, it's really amazing and inspirational. But I was intrigued with the story behind the success. And one of the first questions I wanted to ask you as a fellow Buckeye, throw that in there as well, was what does it mean to you to bet on yourself?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, I think it's a few things. I think that one, maybe ultimately it's trusting yourself, right? It's trusting that no matter what happens, you are capable of moving through it and getting to the other side. How do you get that trust in yourself like McGyver or whatever? How do you get that? Well, you get that through moments that build endurance and resilience and struggle. And I almost feel like the earlier we get that in our lives, the better. So I love meeting up with kids who came from sort of a struggle, because I think that they're ready made to be entrepreneurs. You get that trust to bet on yourself if you're aware and open to it. I think through struggle, struggle and also success. I mean, you can't be knocked down only.
You have to keep going so much so that you actually do have successes now and then. I would say the failures are still more than successes even now in my life. But I do think that it's that sort of trial and error, success and failure, you build that resilience, that endurance and the stamina I think to be in the ring. And I know that some people don't have that, but I think that it's not just confidence. It's not confidence because I don't know that I've really ever had that. I've been an introvert. I second guess everything I do. I think though there is a special kind of trust and I think that's experience. And I had it early, because I struggled as a kid and my family went through so many struggles and I was on my own early in life. And so I think you kind of realize quickly when you're hustling like that out in the world that everything they told you was wrong and that most of the stuff that people think is impossible isn't impossible. And then you just one foot in front of the other.

Michael Redd:
Speaking of the struggles, can you share some of those struggles that you had in the beginning and how you overcame them, even as a child or a teenager?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, I mean, they're deep and when I go back to my childhood, my family like so many families fell completely apart, just horrifically apart when I was about 14 and that was about as explosive as you can get. I mean, there were trials involved and it was not a good situation in any way. I testified. It was terrible. It was about as bad as you can get. I lived with my mother who was a single mother who then got hooked up with a bad guy and they had a baby and it was just like, it went on and on, you know what I mean? It's like bad decision after bad decision and, or just not able to get control I think.
And so it was moving constantly. It was not being able to pay bills. Suddenly some part of the electricity or the whatever would be out and we would be ... I mean this is just like a regular day in my life, having to take the money order to the like directly to the place to get the lights turned back on or oh no, you only pay water, whatever twice a year or whatever. I never remembered that part of it. You know what I mean? So this was constant. And then my mother also had a lot of health problems. And so when she had the baby, I took care of him. He lived in my room, which was the basement of a 1920s townhouse. The basement of those town houses are made out of rocks and they leak.
So I mean, it was a not a great situation. I was at school. Luckily my mother, whenever we moved, she moved us to a good school district or what she thought was the best one in the city that she could afford an apartment in. And so I believe that I got a pretty good education, even though I moved almost every year, but I still graduated almost last in my class. I really couldn't concentrate on school. I wasn't very good at it anyway. But what I did was when I was 15, I decided that, you know what, I got to be my ... I've got to find my own role models. I'm going to go figure this out on my own. And I got my first job and I was like ... that when you get your first job, when everything in your life is chaos and you didn't start any of it, you didn't cause any of it, suddenly you see like a path. Now you see like, okay, I can get control because I can make my own money. Yeah.

Michael Redd:
Wow. I think you made a great point about when people sometimes achieve success very easily and they haven't gone through anything, when they face something for the first time, there's a tendency to abandon what they achieved without having gone through the struggle first. And that's a great point about how the process and the moments of failure and the moments of struggle kind of build you and then allows you to be able to be a steward of the success that you obtained. That makes sense.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Yeah. And also to never rest on your laurels because you know for sure that this isn't guaranteed to be here tomorrow. And that whatever it is you achieve today is over. That's already gone. And so you just keep going forward. I'm almost too much into that now, but that's sort of always seeing the light that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And so you always progress forward.

Michael Redd:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, is there a pivotal time or a pivotal moment in your life where you had to take a chance on yourself? Now for those who are listening, this is not Jeni's first business. She had a business prior to this that she started in, I think it was 1996.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Yeah, I started my first ice cream shop. Yep.

Michael Redd:
Yeah. So was there a moment, was that the moment or is there another moment where you said, "You know what, I'm going to bet on myself and take a chance on myself."

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, there were ... I've always been a little squirrelly or scrappy or something like that. I've never been an authority person. I don't like people telling you what to do. And that was something I was born with. I have not been here able to do that since I was a kid. My teachers always thought I was a very nice person, but I couldn't, it was really hard for me to follow the rules. So I've never been not nice or you know what I mean? But so everything from like when I was first in high school and you had to take the SATs and to get into college and I just saw all the people taking a nine week course on how to get a good grade in the SAT, a good score and I couldn't afford it and I had to work.
And I just thought, that's such cheating. That's not a real indication of who you are at all. And I still believe it's not a real indication of who you are. You can't put that on a piece of paper. It's so much richer than that. So just refusing to do that was almost my first step into I'm going to own my life. And I got into Ohio State anyway. They were like, "Well, you'll just never go to college." And I was like, "Oh, I'll do whatever I want. Thank you." And I literally just thought I will do whatever I want to do because there's always another way. And I didn't believe in ... At first, I didn't think I'd get a good grade on the SAT, but I just didn't believe that that was ... I should put myself under that restriction and so I didn't do it and none of my guidance counselors felt that I was going to be anything.
I mean, I heard people whispering about me in the hallways and things like that. And then I didn't get into Ohio State, but I wrote them a letter of appeal and I explained what I had been doing. I've been working, my mother had a baby. I had been doing a whole bunch of other stuff and they let me in, which was very cool. So that was just almost like the first thing. And then the second big moment, yeah was when I decided that I had discovered ice cream. I was making it at home. I was thinking about being a pastry chef. And so I was making pastries at home and trying to figure out. I couldn't afford pastry school, but trying to figure out how I could do that. I was on grants to go to Ohio State and maybe some small loans.
So I was trying to figure out what I should do for a career and I was thinking of pastry chef. So I was making pastries at home and then ice cream hit. And I just, I realized that ice cream was a perfect way to tell stories. It's actually about scent and then that changed everything. And so within a few months, I left art school. I was studying mostly art, art history, but lots of other stuff at Ohio State. I didn't really focus very well but I just left and in the middle of the semester and went and started in just a farmer's market, just making ice cream and selling it over the counter.
And I guess people wonder like how I had the nerve almost to do that. And I see kids, young people now in school and I think they're like, "I would never quit school. That's like my ticket." And I think like, well nobody told me that, you know what I mean? I just never had anybody to say, "Don't do it. Don't do it right now. Get your degree." And frankly, if I had waited to get my degree, it probably would have racked up more loans. I would have felt too in debt. I would have felt that I have this degree and I should use it. I probably wouldn't have become an ice cream maker if I had waited that long.

Michael Redd:
And that makes me curious because there's a mindset to that and I want to hear from you the type of mindset you have to have or need to find achievement in the face of adversity.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I think it's partially, I have one choice and that is forward. There isn't a ... I don't think that I'm the kind of person who is going to have a career at Nationwide. I knew I wasn't going to be able to work for someone else and build a career that way. As a woman, I'm too ... When I was young, I just felt like the world is sort of stacked against women especially creative women. And I just felt like that wasn't for me.
And so in a way, it's almost like there's that side and then there's this side, there's the path that a lot of people go down and that looks maybe easier and then there's blazing your own path, which obviously can't be easier, right? Because you got to have your machete out and you got to be cutting down the forest before you can even walk on it. But in a way for people like me and I've met a lot of others now that are like that, that felt safer because for whatever reason. But I mean I think it's almost like you know what's on the other side and you know to you that's not safer.

Michael Redd:
Wow. I heard a great quote about living on the edge in that if you live on the edge, you're taking up too much real estate. And it sounds to me more than anything, you had an understanding or an awakening of who you were, which allows you to take the risk. Because a lot of times people are afraid to take risks because of identity issues and fear and there is no point of reference of where I'm going, if that makes sense.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Yup. I also, I believed very much in ... and I was very naive. I didn't have any real education on this or whatever, but I really believed that America is a place where you can do anything you want. You can start at the bottom and work up. And I just really believe that. And I think that part of maybe me and maybe my belief not getting ruined by others is because I grew up in the Midwest, Peoria Illinois and then Columbus when I moved to Columbus when I was 12. But being in these smaller cities, I have lots of friends in the coastal cities and the bigger cities. It seems like there's a lot of people who like to tell you what to do and it almost becomes oppressive, like the tried and true path that people [inaudible 00:14:46] the bigger the city you live in.
And the more space you have to think and imagine and it was almost like there was less of that, of other people's ideas on me at the time. I mean, I was probably invisible in our culture at the time. I mean, I was just such a young, I didn't know anything. I didn't know anyone. I was very invisible, so I just did whatever I wanted. There's something to being invisible in a way that makes you believe that you can do whatever you want. There's nothing telling you you can't.

Michael Redd:
Absolutely. I've been through that in my life and my career, and I can totally relate to that 1000%. Before I ask you this question, I've heard you say this before, as far as your grandmother having an influential part in your life. I think she said something to you one time about being able to accomplish anything that you want in your life. And I want to ask you, who's your biggest advocate or who was your biggest advocate in helping you bet on yourself?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, it was definitely my grandmother. And while I say that no one sort of told me I couldn't do things, I will say that we knew acutely that things were different for women, even now, and certainly that we were one of the first generations where things were slightly more possible than they had been before. Within just a few years, my grandmother's, my mother's generation, women were treated extraordinarily unfairly when they had vision and ideas and me being like one generation away from that didn't change it that much. I mean, we do enough in this country to make it look like we're doing okay. And I know that this is across the board for so many issues, but it's really not.
And so I was very aware that people were going to think that I couldn't do it. And I was very aware too that people already thought that I couldn't do it. I mean, as a girl growing up, all the men like to say certain things to you or whatever to make you feel pretty or whatever. And so I rejected that. So part of my I think success over time was that I was fighting against that and I was ready for a fight and I was ready to show people and I didn't care what people thought, whether I can do it or not. So when I started Jeni or when I started Screen, and then also when I started Jeni's, constantly there was people who like ... Everybody wants to tell you how they think you should do it or whatever.
But there was just constantly people thinking that I wasn't going to be able to do it for various reasons, but a lot of times went back to just me being a woman. And whereas a male counterpart of mine who had a different business, or even some people in an ice cream business, men in an ice cream business kind of copying off of me have gotten press that I wouldn't have gotten. And so anyway, so I do think that that fight, acknowledging and be ready for it. The things that you're fighting against can actually be a strength as well because they just make you angry and anger is to me my most motivating force. Sounds weird, but I just believe that like guilt, shame and blame are terrible and you shouldn't put that on anyone. But anger is very personal to me. When I get angry because of injustice, it just becomes personal and then you make it happen. I think that if ever I get a good workout in, I'm also kind of mad. You know what I mean?

Michael Redd:
Yes. Yes.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
It's kind of the same motivation.

Michael Redd:
What do you say to that person that's listening that has lost that fight or doesn't have that tenacity? How do you encourage them to get to that certain mindset?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
There is strength in feeling lost and feeling hopeless and feeling like everything is stacked against you. There is strength in that because you don't have anything to lose. And at some point, you can kind of face into that and face into those challenges and realize that it's not about other people, what they say. It's not about making them happy with your successes. It's about you taking one step forward every day, one step. That's it. Everybody's going to tell you you can't do it or whatever. You can have this long vision for years in the future, which is what I always do. Create this vision, impossible vision years off in the future, but then it's one step. And feel the power of the weight sort of stacked against you and of your own, I think even anger at that.
And remember that kindness ... I think that love is the biggest force. And so when I think about anger, it comes from a place of love. So you know what I mean? It comes from a place of, I will defend this, like almost like moms feel, you know what I mean? It's like we will defend no matter what our children and our families and whatever. But like something about that, that you sort of use these sort of negative forces to actually fill you and then it's just about one step what you can do today.

Michael Redd:
No, I love that. I love that and it leads me to my next question, and this may be redundant, but I think it's a good question in the fact that, how does where you come from inform your mindset for success now?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I think that the Midwest absolutely informs my mindset. I think there's a humility in the Midwest, especially the deep Midwest where I'm from in Peoria, Illinois, even outside of Peoria. So in the middle of Illinois Southern or central Illinois, I think there's a community aspect to everything we do there. It's you're never ... like I said earlier, you don't rest on your laurels. You keep moving forward, you keep working hard. And that's the most important thing you can do every single day.
It's never about, for me, it's never about the actual win or the end or the whatever, the money, it's about the team I get to play with, the job I get to do, the sort of mission and that's over time what it means to have a good life, which is that life well lived and that comes from that inner drive and that mission of trying to do something beautiful and that does good in the world. And I think that comes from the Midwest. I think for me it's that community spirit. It's literally church potlucks, spirit or whatever where you're not the most important one in the room. It's the fact that we're together that makes us important.

Michael Redd:
100% agree. I'm from Columbus and it's kept me humble and grounded in so many ways to your point. Speaking of drive, you mentioned the word drive. Where does your drive come from to continue to strive for achievement and success?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, I think I have a deep inner drive and it's possible I was born with it too. I love being challenged. I love being challenged by puzzles. Like the ice cream is actually ... what we're doing with ice cream is really hard. And that's a challenging puzzle that I love working every day to solve, whether it's trying to sell a little more so we can get the resources to buy a different piece of equipment or literally doing the math problem of figuring out the molecular equation of how to make ice cream better without stabilizers, emulsifiers and all of those ingredients that other people use instead.
And so there's the challenge of actual work, but I also just like to see what I'm capable of, you know what I mean? And that's something that's important. I have a lot of energy and I just like, I keep going. I will say a lot of people are motivated. I'm not sure motivated is the right word, but they're sort of motivated or driven by what the world's thinks and what the established beliefs are of what is right and wrong and what is success and what is failure. I'm really driven by how I feel. I know it's right if it feels good to me and sometimes I'm wrong and then what happens is I feel bad and then I change it and then I do something else. And so I think there is something to be said.
I actually am not a sports person and I never really, I didn't grow up with sports or anything. But I love watching athletes because I feel like the only way you get to the level that you get to is if you are driven because it feels good. Because winning feels good and isn't about the win necessarily. It is, but it isn't because you had to put so much into that and normal people can't put that kind of effort in. Right. And it's like that for me, it's like you get the super human power because it feels right. And when something feels right, I can do something ... It's almost like I become extra human. I get this extra power to make something happen. And that's why not everybody is as an elite athlete. But partly it's just like that drive, that early drive that that person got in their life. And I think it has to do with how you feel. You can't do it because somebody tells you to do it. You can't get to that level because somebody tells you to.

Michael Redd:
100%. I think that mindset and drive can translate into anything in any space.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Absolutely anything. And I think if we teach young people to pay attention to what they're driven to do, and I know that some young people will be like, "Well, I'm just driven to play video games all day." There's something even in that. If there's ... There's something in that. What are you actually driven to do? Instead of forcing them into roles that may not be the right one because what we want are people who are working at this sort of super human capacity. And in order to do that, we need as parents and as community leaders and just people in the community, teachers and everybody to encourage our kids to find that. And I don't know exactly how to do that, but somebody helped me do that when I was a kid. It was my grandmothers I think. But that inner drive is what's so important and it comes from, I really do you think it comes from the stuff that you love to do, whether it's skateboarding or football or ice cream or molecular science.

Michael Redd:
What would you tell someone who is 40, but has never felt that drive?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I would say take all of the societal achievement markers out of the equation. So forget about cars and money and material things and labels and all of the things that all the people put on you that make you feel that you've been successful. Because once you achieve those things, most of us don't feel successful, right? We don't feel happy. Take all of those off the table and sit in silence until you think about what you want to do that makes you happy outside of that stuff. Because I think we chase these ghosts almost and it comes down to like how we look to other people. And if you really are okay taking that on the table, and sometimes that takes a long time to get to that place. Then figure out what you want to do, then see if you don't find motivation because I bet you will.

Michael Redd:
If you had to define success, what is success to you? What does it mean to you?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I think success is when you're in your last few years on earth and you feel like when you look back, you lived a good and pleasant existence. You know that you fought hard when you needed to fight hard, that you loved as hard as you could possibly love. And that there's ups and downs. But in the end when you add it all up, it feels like it was pleasant and good. So you won't know until you [inaudible 00:26:32]. That's why you got to make good decisions every day. Try to. But you're defined by your pattern, not the one day. And that's important to remember.
You're defined, you can make really, just do stupid things for even a whole year or even a decade in your life. You can do stupid things. You can just be wrong and still over a lifetime get it right all together. And that same thing is true on a minute by minute basis in the day. You're not defined by the one time you did something, but by the pattern that you create in the world and that people know you by. And that takes time to build. And it's also something you can change. And in fact only you can change it.

Michael Redd:
You are defined by your pattern. With that being said, do you have any regrets as you, over the last 30 years, 40 years gone on your journey, are there any regrets at all?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I do not have any regrets. I think that isn't to say that I haven't made massive mistakes because I have. But when I look at my life, I think I have put an emphasis on love, on friendship, on helping others, on building a company as a community of people that we care about and structuring my life around my values. And I think that that's something that I'm very proud of and at least up until this point. I got a lot more years ago. I don't have any regrets and I feel really grateful for that.

Michael Redd:
I think that's an amazing comment. It's hard to have regrets in life when you make decisions from a sincere place. That makes sense.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Yeah, exactly.

Michael Redd:
Okay with that in mind, if you could tell your 16 year old self something or anything, what would you tell her?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I would say if I was going to talk to my 16 year old self, I would say, you are going to be fine. I think ultimately I sort of knew it, but at the time it was really hard for me to see that. I mean I was just buried and fighting and struggling for my life. And so I think I just would've wanted her to know. And she would have been like, "Cool, okay. I think I know that." But I think it just would have given her just a little more of that power to power through it.

Michael Redd:
Absolutely. That's interesting. Wouldn't change anything, but it'd give her a more power. More of a boost.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Yeah. I think a little more confidence as ... yeah, a little bit. Yup. Maybe it would have ushered in some positive things a little faster, just a little bit. I don't think it would have changed anything really, but I think it would have ultimately let 16 year old Jeni believe in herself just a little bit more and believe in what was possible. I think ultimately, I did do that, but I think it would have been nice to feel a little better along the way I think.

Michael Redd:
Do you try to instill that within your family and your kids?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I try to. It's hard as a parent who is a successful parent. I mean just a successful person I guess. We try not to have everything perfect on purpose and nothing is perfect because we're humans. But as parents, how much struggle do you always see your kids go through? I mean, they're going to go through struggle anyway. They already are. They have been, in their own ways anyway. But how do you instill in them what you went through that was probably the best thing that ever happened to you and in a weird way made you somebody that you kind of like and you want to make sure that your kids don't take anything for granted and don't rest on their laurels and believe in the future and believe in what is possible and what they can do and that they don't have trust what anyone else says. They can make up their own mind of the world. It's hard to do that when they have things given to them in a way that maybe we didn't or I didn't. So we try to figure that out, but we'll see.

Michael Redd:
It's not a perfect formula to manage your career and manage your family. Talk a little bit about that, about building what you built, you and your husband and also managing family time.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, especially I think as a mom, because no matter what happens, for whatever reason, people sort of, it really feels like people really blame the moms when stuff goes wrong, whether it's school work or it's something dumb like your kid wears the same clothes to school for three days straight. So you feel as a mom, you feel a lot of pressure and that's a lot of times from the other moms. But it can also be from teachers and certainly everywhere you go on the internet, media and all of that stuff. So there is a ... it's a really hard line to walk being the sort of breadwinner of the family, but also having the incredible and enormous role of motherhood and parenthood because we are partners of course with our partners and my husband Charlie is great and he's a wonderful person, a great dad.
But sometimes I think that he doesn't have to feel the pressure that I do. I mean, a lot of times people think that it's really cute if he just tries to do a good job. Whereas for me, people expect that the mother will be successful at whatever it is, getting their kids do to their homework, getting their kids to shower on time, getting whatever. But if he doesn't, it's sort of like cute. Oh, he tried kind of thing. And it's sort of like, it can be very exhausting honestly the kinds of pressures that are put on mothers in addition to the fact that we are often breadwinners now in our families as well. And that takes a lot of effort, every bit as much effort as it has ever taken any man. But sometimes then we lose ourselves in the process. And I certainly did for about a decade after I had children.

Michael Redd:
My wife and women in general are my heroes and my inspiration.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
There's something we can channel about that real quick. I mean, I do think that women ... I mean, I'm a person who I like being surrounded by men and women and I love the perspectives of both. I'm a person who likes to be surrounded by a lot of different perspectives that way and I just love listening to different ideas and how people come to them or whatever. But I think that there is something about women that people always want to say, "Women are nurturing and they're community builders." Okay, well that might be true. That might be true. In my experience, I've seen that that's accurate too. But they're also bad asses.
I mean, they can ... you know what I mean? They can be kind of brutal. They can tell it like it is, be frank with you. I don't know why we don't talk about the mother instinct. I mean, it can be like punk rock, you know what I mean? And in business, when it comes to negotiating things like that, there are strengths in the things that I learned from motherhood. Let me tell you, it's not the nurturing, community building, whatever. It's the mama bear instinct.

Michael Redd:
Yes. I see it often and I respond to it often. My wife is one of my biggest inspirations in my life.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
She's a lot of peoples inspiration. She's an amazing woman, a human being, just an amazing, amazing human being.

Michael Redd:
Man, she thinks the world of you and I think you guys had an incredible connection when you guys met and talked and there's so much similarities to you both. And I'll ask you this question when it comes to what you've been able to do with your family, your business. As you journeyed down this road, who were some of your biggest inspirations, women that you gleaned from?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I mean, well, definitely my two grandmothers. My one grandmother was an artist and she was just ... from her father probably born in the 1800s was a suffragist. Actually, her grandfather was a suffragist. Her father and she came from a line of men who were feminists basically. And so her name was Enid and she was hilarious. I mean, she was a mumu wearing artist. At one point my grandfather forbid her to go to Europe by herself. I mean at the time it was sort of dangerous. This is in the sixties. So she sold his car and went. So I'm definitely brought up by, on both sides, women who were rule breakers. My other grandmother was awesome too. She's Irish, she's got just fiery red hair and that meant a lot to me to see these women who just didn't give anything for the rules. Right. But many others along the way.
When I was about 12 years old, I still have the diary that I wrote in. I decided that my family wasn't going to be my role models. I was going to have to figure out how I was going to become who I was going to become. And I remembered when I was a kid, I wished on a star every single night and I always wished for a horse and I decided that I wasn't going to do that anymore and I was going to come up with a wish that I could actually ... that was going to come true no matter what. And the wish I came up with, it took me a while. I remember I was walking around my neighborhood and I was looking at stories while I was thinking about it. And the wish is star light, star bright for star I see tonight, which I may wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. I wish that have the power to become the person that I'm going to be.
And from there I started modeling my behavior off of women, especially that I just thought were cool. It could be somebody I saw on the street. It could be like a vision of some young woman in New York city who just got done with ballet class and now she's rushing to her night job. It could be a woman that I worked for at the French bakery. Her name is Gigi, and she was incredible. And also men along the way. So I feel like we as ... that's one of the reasons that I try to be aware of how I behave in front of people because I feel like you never know who's watching, but young women and boys too are watching us to model our behaviors. Some of them aren't having active mentor relationships, but some of them are just paying attention and trying out new behaviors based on what they see. So I was definitely one of those people that did that.

Michael Redd:
Paying it forward is a mantra that is big in our state of Ohio, giving back. And so how much of a responsibility do you feel to give back to the next generation?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
I like to say that my entire story is about asking other people for help, which it is. I've been, from the very beginning, needed help. I've enlisted everybody from friends to other people who maybe worked at the market, the farmers to ... and as I grew, I just kept bringing people in and that was awesome. And so I feel like when your life is that way, you're asking other people [inaudible 00:37:09]. So one of the ways you get help is by being helpful. And so that's become just my sort of cycle of life. It's like you give back and then people give to you and then you owe the world again. It's almost like I think of gratitude is the debt you owe the world.
Being aware of what you're thankful for and what privileges you have in the world and what the unearned privileges that you have in the world. When you're aware of those things, it means you owe them back. That's how I think about it. And I'm lucky that I live in a community that sort of embodies that in everything that we do. And so it becomes not just me, but it sort of the place that I live and the values of this place, which is important. And we have so much more work to do on that front, but we're in a good place.

Michael Redd:
As an entrepreneur and as a builder, how important is it to have optimism bias?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Did you call it optimism bias?

Michael Redd:
Yes.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Just like, yeah.

Michael Redd:
Glass half full. Yeah. How important has that been to your journey as you continue to plow through and continue to grow? And then you've had to pivot and you've had to face adversity and challenges as a young startup or a young entrepreneur, how important is that to have?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, who was that in the sports world that said, "So you're telling me there's a chance?" Whatever that ... I know of my friend Ryan Vesler at Homage, I know he's done a tee shirt of that and I just love it. But the idea of like, so you're telling me there's a chance? If there is still a chance, for me it feels, the odds feel pretty good. I don't think that everybody's like that, but you know what I mean? I feel like if there is still a chance, I'm not giving up. And I suppose there would be many things I would give up. You know what I mean?
Like it has to be the right thing. But I want to tell you when I'm really linked into it, when I really want it to happen, when I really, really believe in it, I have many examples of this in my life. When the odds are super stacked against you, I don't know, that it is that sort of, if there is a chance we're not giving up attitude and you almost always win. It's the strangest thing. You can always give up because somebody told you to give up but also you can keep going and a lot of times you end up winning.

Michael Redd:
Is it important for you to have people around you or even inner awareness between optimism bias and being delusional?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Oh yeah. I mean, you kind of ... Yeah. You don't want that. I mean there is that you do have to have strategy. You do have to be able to see a path that you can strategize and execute. I mean there definitely isn't ... you can't just be stupid. You know what I mean? And there really is a sort of a razor thin film between the two of those. Right. But I think ultimately you kind of know quickly whether your optimism was warranted or not, and then you just pivot and go somewhere else. But yeah, you do have to surround yourself with people who are able to see the vision and then create the plan to get there. I mean, do you know what I mean?
Like it isn't just about your dumb idea or whatever, but I mean, you have to be able to convince people that it's worth taking the shot and that this is how we're going to do it. And if you can't convince good super smart people, because obviously you're surrounded by people who are way smarter than you and you're awesome. If you can't convince them, then there's probably something to what they're saying.

Michael Redd:
Makes sense. I have held you for a long time in this podcast, but I have enjoyed it so much. I want to end with this last question. There's so much talk and a lot about or around legacy today. And I want to ask you, how do you hope people remember you someday?

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, I hope, I guess, I don't know. That's an interesting question. I feel like I'm so focused on what I do every day and also getting to the place that I know I can get that I don't think I'm there enough yet to say like, I hope people remember me this way. But certainly I think as a person who didn't take no for an answer and also, especially as a woman during a time when no matter what it looks like out there in the world, it isn't as easy for a woman to do that. And that I made discoveries on my own. I didn't just listen to what others told me. And if that can inspire other kids, especially kids that maybe came from the struggle or whatever, then that's a good legacy to have. I would be proud of that up in heaven, looking down and being like, "Okay, cool."

Michael Redd:
It's funny because oftentimes you're making history without knowing that you're making history. And I can certainly say from afar and watching you from afar, you've made history in our city and not only in our city, but I think globally and the industry that you're in and something to be proud of. And I honor it and I salute you and your family and what you've done.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
Well, thank you so much and likewise back at you.

Michael Redd:
Yeah. It's just been an honor to have you and thank you Jeni again for being a part of this.

Jeni Britton Bauer:
And thanks for doing this great podcast.